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Follow up from the Climate and Peace Forum. Driving to the Future, 

by | Dec 2, 2021 | Blog

Follow up from the Climate and Peace Forum. Driving to the Future, 

November 2021.

Thank you to all who attended our forum on the 16th of November, with so many additional questions our three speakers have kindly offered further explanations.

Questions and responses from Paul Fox: Evie Networks

Question: For an assessment of the number of chargers required, how much consideration is given to peak requirements and times when the chargers are not required.  Doesn’t this mean many more chargers will be required?

  • Evie Networks has a sophisticated model for forecasting demand and planning the appropriate capacity.  That model includes data on actual peaks as well as forecast changes in EV uptake and driver behaviour in the future. The graphics shown in my presentation consider those peaks. Our planning considers that certain chargers will see congestion earlier than others. 

Question: When will reverse charging (car to house) be fully available

  • Theoretically it is available now if your car uses the Japanese CHAdeMO charging standard.  The global CCS2 standard is being updated to include bi-directional charging.  
  • Bi-directional charging enables vehicle-to-load (V2L), vehicle-to-home (V2H) and eventually vehicle-to-grid (V2G).  V2L can be as simple as a 220V power outlet in the car and is already offered on several models of EV.   
  • While in theory you can do it, there are many practical issues to solve, e.g., battery warranty, safety of electrical workers, electrical standards, grid connections and energy market reforms.  
  • The biggest barrier may be the cost.  B-directional charging adds additional hardware and cost to both the vehicle and the home charger.  A good quality solar inverter can be bought for less than $1,000 while a wall-box charger is another $1000.  Bi-directional chargers can cost $5,000 to $10,000.  The cost will likely fall but never as low as a solar inverter.  
  • Moreover, many homes will need a switchboard and wiring upgrade.  
  • I think we are still 5 to 10 years away from seeing significant numbers of V2H or V2G in Australia.  However, enthusiasts will get them earlier and show us all the way as they did with solar, batteries and then electric cars.

Question: What fuels your 350kw charging stations, are they powered by Solar or from fossil fuelled generators?

  • Evie Networks offers 100% green energy at all our stations, similar to the green energy you can buy at home from your energy retailer.  Our usage largely coincides with solar production with a peak between 12 noon and 1 pm, so we benefit from the energy mix at that time of day. Of course, the NEM energy-mix can change form hour to hour.  Our retailer buys LGC (Large-Scale Generation Certificates) so they can offset the times where renewable generation is not available.  Where we connect to our site host’s network (rather than our own meter), and that site host does not buy green energy, we simply buy the LGC ourselves.  We have solar on one of our sites and we are continually looking at ways to procure greener energy and offer competitive pricing.

Question: Are these charging stations expandable to meet increased EV uptake?  Will city motels have charging stations for country people who drive 6 hours to go to the city.

  • Evie Networks is building a ring of expandable 350kW sites around our major cities. They open with two chargers and can be expanded to six over time.  These sites are designed to serve drivers entering or leaving the metropolitan area. In the metro area we generally build sites with two chargers as that is the limit of the available space or power connection.  Overtime you can expect to see these sites grow larger or closer together.
  • City motels could install overnight AC chargers for their guests.  We may also see some hotel operators decide to offer DC fast chargers as happens in US and EU.  However, these are a bigger investment.

Question: I don’t see any charging stations on your maps in Alice Springs or elsewhere in the Centre. Any plans?

  • EV chargers are infrastructure somewhat similar to water, wastewater, electricity, telephone lines, mobile phone towers and broadband.  The more remote the area the greater the problem of ensuring that regional citizens get equitable access to such infrastructure. Often the economics are not attractive to commercial operators looking to invest $250,000 to $1.5M in a DC fast charging station.  So far, the commonwealth and state governments have focused on intercity and metropolitan charging.  We recommend that governments focus future investment on regional areas.  

Question: Are all the charging connections a standard type? Our experience with mobile phones shows that proprietary charges leads to confusion and waste.

  • Plug standardisation has improved in last two years and it is not too difficult for consumers, but a bit of a headache for operators. There are three common DC fast charging plug-types being installed in Australia:  CCS2 (European), CHAdeMO (Japanese) and Tesla (proprietary to Tesla). 
  • Tesla is now using CCS2 in Australia.  Nissan is switching to CCS2 for North American and European markets. We hope they do the same in Australia.  
  • At the moment we fit CCS2 and CHAdeMO plugs on all out stations.  We look forward to the day when all carmakers switch to CCS2. The sooner the better for the industry!

Question: With limited number of chargers at convenience locations like Food outlets and shopping centres. How will need be managed. If someone drives up to a shopping centre with 90% battery left in their tank, what is stopping them to sit in the parking space for a couple of hours effectively locking out drivers that may be desperate to get some power?

  • As the number of electric cars increase, we may see an increase in inadvertent or deliberate bad behaviour.  We have not seen too many problems in Australia so far, but more common reports from US and EU.  The best solution is establishing social norms, i.e., we as drivers developing some good etiquette and politely spreading the word.  Charge Point Operators can also help with good site design, behavioural alerts, and price signals.  For example, Tesla levies an “idle fee” for cars that remain parked after completing a charge.
  • Finally, enforcement by sites hosts such as shopping centres and local government.  However, bear in mind that many site hosts do not have the  people able to do enforcement.
  • In the end we should consider the “golden rule” of every great civilisation:  “Treat others as you would like others to treat you.”

Questions and responses from Will Edmonds. Bloomberg NEF (BNEF)

Question: What is the carbon production difference between a standard vehicle and an EV? Is there a 4WD EV model available in Australia?

  • Currently, an EV has slightly higher carbon emissions to produce. Since power is a key input into vehicle production, however, there are regional differences for both EVs and internal combustion engine vehicles (ICEs). For example, a higher share of renewables in Europe’s grid means it’s much more carbon efficient to build cars there than in China. EVs produced in Europe use less carbon than ICEs built in China. Over the lifetime of the vehicle, carbon emissions are much lower for EVs than ICEs in all regions. It is more efficient to use an electric engine, and as the years go on the vehicles charge from an increasingly renewable grid. 
  • The Mitsubishi Outlander is a 4WD PHEV. Other markets have electric 4WD models, but Australia lags in model availability, so there are no 4WD BEVs available in Australia. 


Question: Will powerful Utes be available to pull caravans and how do they perform in heavier situations such as off road etc?

  • Yes. This is political propaganda from the last federal election. Scott Morrison has reversed his rhetoric for the upcoming election. There are many videos on YouTube showing EVs towing boats, trailers, and even aircraft. There is no reason why an EV will not be able to tow something if it has the same torque as an ICE.
    Vehicle reviewers report that EVs can perform better off road thanks to a lower centre of gravity from the battery pack in the bottom of the car. 


Question: If the electric vehicle is so important why such a push for hydrogen fuelled technology ? Why are we not looking into Hydrogen for fuel?

  • In short: it has to do with cost. Hydrogen is expensive and inefficient, and lithium is cheap and efficient. Hydrogen will be used in some use cases such as heavy commercial vehicles which need to travel long distances with heavy loads and don’t have ample access to charging infrastructure.

Question: Is anyone looking to develop a solar capacity on the car itself? Even if only at relatively low kw level to provide additional range or emergency power.

  • There are many companies looking to do this. The panels that need to be installed on a car are unlike the panels that are installed on a roof. They need to be made part of the car’s body, which is curved and must be resilient. This increase costs. It will be easier, and cheaper in the short-term, to just install panels at charging spots and charge using solar this way. 

Question: By when can this whole system be totally green end to end?

  • The hardest thing to decarbonize will be the steel that is built into the car. This will need to be made with hydrogen and is widely considered to be the “highest hanging fruit” of decarbonization. This means it is difficult and costly to do, so it will be one of the last things to be decarbonized. This means it will likely happen just before 2050. Some companies are experimenting with 3D printing cars with more sustainable materials – it’s uncertain how this will turn out.

Questions and responses from Alexandra Kelly (Electric Vehicle Council)

Question: What is the life of the new batteries in EV’S?

  • When we talk about EV battery life, we are talking about two lives. The first is the life powering the car.  Then comes its secondary life.
  • A battery can suitably be used to power an EV until it reaches 80% capacity, and it is currently expected that it will take approx. 15 years before the battery degrades this much and is retired from the vehicle. At this point the battery still works – with 80% of its original power. Then comes its second life.
  • In its second life, the battery can be used for stationary storage and emergency power generation (think bushfires, for example).At the end of its second life, the remaining minerals will be recycled.


Question: What do you think will be the effect of the Vic gov’t plan to charge EV owners a km-based road use levy?

  • Unfortunately, the Victorian Government’s plan to prematurely introduce a road-user-charge will likely have a negative effect on EV uptake in the state. Consumers will question why they are paying an additional tax when they are contributing to reduction in spending on environment and health by using a zero emissions vehicle.
  • The problem isn’t the road-user-charge itself; it is the lack of consultation, timing, and implementation of it. Other states have delayed the introduction of the RUC until 2027 or until EVs make up 30% of new vehicle sales so as not to disincentivise EV purchasing. 

Question: Is there any chance that there could be the establishment of an Australian Vehicle Production industry based on EV’s?

  • There is a strong case to be made for domestic manufacturing of EVs in Australia. We have a skilled workforce, with the production facilities. We are close to supply chains, and we produce high quality products. However, for a manufacturer to make the choice and investment in Australian vehicle manufacturing, then we need strong government strategy and investment to attract them.

Question: Can we imagine Australia manufacturing EVs and related infrastructure for jobs/ revenues/ exports that would help with funds to continue to spiral up electrification?

  • There are already manufacturers in Australia producing electric vehicles and charging infrastructure that are growing bigger than our market. SEA Electric is a manufacturer that makes EV trucks and specialised vehicles who is opening offices in Asia and North America. Tritium is a world known DC charging manufacturer based in Queensland, with offices in Europe.
  • But, in order to keep Australian companies manufacturing in Australia, and to encourage new manufacturers to invest, Governments need to demonstrate commitment and put forward investment. Australia has a chance to compete in the EV value chain, but those decisions need to be made now.  

The Electric vehicle Council also has  this FAQ doc on the website you might like to link to https://electricvehiclecouncil.com.au/about-ev/faqs/